Kareem’s final trial
February 22nd, 2007Dalia Ziada, a human rights activist and blogger, informs us that Kareem is sentenced to FOUR years in prison: three years for contempting religion, and one year for defaming the president.
His appeal will be launched on Saturday by his lawyers, but we are told that it won’t do much. Hopefully it will shorten the sentence.
This is bad news for all of us, and we’d just like you all to know that this fight for his freedom will still continue until he is freed.
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:59 am
We will not give up. This is an injustice and it will not go unchallenged. it will be contested, it will be appealed. Abdelkareem’s case is the case of every blogger, every dissident, every person who aspires to living as a free citizen.
February 22nd, 2007 at 4:06 am
just read abou this. Terrible that Freedom of speech is under fire in this way and that an individual can be made to suffer like this for speaking out. How can pliticinas be held to account if a person can be imprisoned for “defaming” them? Are religions so weak that they need to be protected from being “defamed”? Best wishes for your campaign.
February 22nd, 2007 at 4:37 am
It will be a matter of time until this despicable act spreads all over the world. In Europe, in countries where freedom of speech is supposedly ensured, the extreme left and extreme rightare already rooted in the educational, health and communication systems, oppressing any voice of dissent. My country is an example of that.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:01 am
I’m sorry to hear about the sentence, but hope he’ll be able to resume his life soon if an appeal shortens his sentence or even possibly frees him.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:17 am
This is an absolute outrage; four years of a life stolen for expressing views that, even if you agree with or not, are at the end of the day an opinion. Surely all Hosni Mubarak’s government has prooven in this case is that the original [sic]“Hosni Mubarak is a dictator” comment is correct - don’t most dictators have a history of extreme supression of views that are against them? I had always believed that Islaam (and therefore Jumhuriyat Misr al-Arabiyah) preached understanding and acceptance of those who’s viewpoints differ - but maybe i’m wrong. Free Kareem.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:41 am
This is disgusting, such threatening moves are a clear abuse of humanity and I pray that those responsible for this unjust decision will be severely punished, if not by man then by God.
February 22nd, 2007 at 5:48 am
I just posted about Kareem. May he be set free soon.
February 22nd, 2007 at 7:57 am
I can’t believe it. SHAME on Egypt!! And shame on Egyptians for not totally rallying behind him!!
Today, I am embarassed to call myself an Egyptian!
Too sad.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:01 am
I am deeply shocked by this prison sentence. Posted about kareem on blog. Please keep us posted on what happens around Kareem (I live in France) and thanks for the work and energy you put in informing us on what happens to kareem, since he can’t.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 am
Desde España mi apoyo, ojala tu libertad llegue muy pronto.
February 22nd, 2007 at 8:50 am
You can argue that what he has been convicted of shouldn’t be a crime in the first place, but he is guilty of the crime as charged. He was a young, loudmouthed troublemaker. Even if you believe in free speech, what good comes out of what he wrote?
It is so sad that all the Egyptians sitting in prison on trumped up charges for crimes that they didn’t even commit in the first place don’t get international attention like this. I know good, upstanding Egyptian citizens who were minding their own business, who were dragged out of their homes and sent to prison on completely fabricated charges of drug dealing and terrorism and the like. Lives destroyed for absolutely NO reason, justified or unjustified. No one but their friends and family know about their suffering.
Why all this energy spent on this one guy? Why not call for more widespread justice?
February 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 am
Where is Kareem’s blog? What did he say exactly that infuriated folks?
I remember what happened to Salman Rushdie for writing Satanic Verses…
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:50 am
JJ, usually I do not have the time to reply to such comments here. But I will make this one exception.
Imprisoned for insulting the president? Jailed for “insults”? You say locking people up for insulting the President, and his religion, is justifiable? If you agree that locking people up because you disagree with what they say, then you don’t believe in free speech. What Kareem wanted to create was public discourse. He had the right to say the things he says, whether you disagree with them or not is your business. But he had the right to say it, as a human being with basic civil rights.
In any case -
The reason for your concerns are very simple:
We are very much aware that there are more people like Kareem suffering for similar causes. People often don’t understand the simple fact that we can all easily change certain policies by focusing on a specific issue such as this one, and indirectly applying it to society as a whole. If you focus on a single issue, and make sure that the entire world knows about it, that is “widespread justice” in the sense that the authorities will think twice about committing the same mistake and getting the same amount of attention.
We are teaching them a lesson, and the lesson is, if you are going to imprison people for freedom of expression, then you better reconsider. Or Egypt’s reputation will be tarnished, NOT by the likes of Kareem, but by the limelight that we have created on his case.
Secondly, Kareem is actually very lucky to have friends like us, who really care about his freedom and his safety. If you have friends and family going through the same thing, GET OUT AND DO SOMETHING. Speak up, and don’t be bitter against us, the ones who are actually contributing positively to Egypt by making them understand that people will no longer stay silent when others have to face such consequences for practicing basic human rights.
The energy here is not “wasted.” The energy here is making thousands of Arab and Muslim civilians aware of what’s happening, and to speak up against what’s happening for the sake of free speech. This is widespread justice. This is a good cause. These are risks worth taking, and efforts worth making.
February 22nd, 2007 at 10:52 am
Dear Paula,
A link to Kareem’s blog is provided on the sidebar of this Web site. For your convenience, I’ll add it here too:
http://karam903.blogspot.com/
All the best.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:04 pm
Look, I’m not saying he deserves the punishment he is getting. He is some young kid mouthing off in a way that wasn’t very mature, eloquent or respectful. Hardly a threat to state security if he were left alone. But take away the case against him, and look at him on his own merits. I mean even his supporters found him offensive…so is this really the individual case you want to be making the centerpiece of your movement? Think about the implications of your support-you are suggesting that it is OK for students to badmouth their professors, and their fellow students with such foul language. It might be something that should be allowed from a legal perspective, but don’t lose sight of the idea of common decency in one’s writing and speech that everyone should respect regardless of the law.
I hate to be a cynic-but I wonder where you all were when Egyptians were accused of being Islamic terrorists and wrongly imprisoned? Along comes a secular young man who criticizes Islam and all the bloggers jump to support him. Why? Is it because it gives people an outlet to vent against Islam as many non-Egyptians like to to do these days? Think carefully about what supporting this guy says about what he said. Even if it is not your intention, you are legitimizing his words.
I find the whole bloggers phenomenon very amusing. Everyone was up in arms in October over some women getting groped during the eid. As if this was some new level of depravity in Egypt. Hello???? What planet are you living on. This sort of groping during the eid has been going on for years. And it took some photos that really didn’t even show anything for you to realize this?
For most Egyptians, free speech is not a big priority. Having the ability to walk down the street without being summarily arrested for nothing is. Having enough food to put on the table is. Having a job is. Being able to afford getting married is. Making sure their children get a good education is. Free speech is nice, but it doesn’t cover the basics of living that so many Egyptians are struggling with today.
February 22nd, 2007 at 12:08 pm
In your 2nd paragraph you are asking a question that I have already taken the time to answer. You ask, “why?” we don’t see why not. If you aren’t doing the things you propose yourself, then don’t ask others to do it for you. This campaign is a statement on Egypt, on Islamic societies, and it’s mainly aimed to free a dear friend. We think it’s incredibly useful, and it’s creating an interesting and important discourse that have never taken place before in the Arab and Muslim world so openly as it is taking now.
It is in bad taste to dismiss our efforts as useless. We have worked too hard to get where we are today, and we are willing to work even harder. If you think other things should be done, DO THEM. Don’t ask others where they were, or why they’re not doing the things that in your opinion they “should be” doing. Do it yourself. This is our fight.
And we are not super heroes. You don’t just aim to save an entire country. You focus on small issues, and tackle them one at a time. How do you want people to have education, for example, if they won’t even be able to apply their critical thinking skills in society due to huge restrictions and limits of free speech? How do you expect people to complain about their lacks if they will be shoved in jail for “tarnishing the reputation of Egypt” by criticizing the government? Free speech makes a lot of things possible. I said this before and I will say it again - this fight is worth fighting, and we won’t stop, nor will we change the course of this campaign. If people want other things done, no one is stopping them from achieving it. Don’t expect or wait for change - BE the change.
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:28 pm
Go over to Sandmonkey and see what hateful things are being written about Islam over there. If you want to really help, then do your job properly and make those people in the West see that the government’s actions in this case have nothing to do with Islam. Correct the misconception.
I understand the principle of start small, but you didn’t start with a typical case. You didn’t start with a case that will get the support of most of the Egyptian population. How many MB members were arrested in the last week? How many innocent individuals were rounded up for questioning with a stick for some small local crime? Do you think their arrest was justified? Why don’t you take up one of their cases? You could start a revolution tomorrow if you were smart and picked a case that would garner the support of the Egyptian populace.
But you choose someone who has been convicted of insulting Islam. Look at the polls, the Egyptians identify themselves by their religion more than any other nation. Do you really expect them to identify with Kareem? Of course, you got the support of foreigners who are now calling for boycotts of Egypt. What do you want? That a foreign army come in to occupy the country and “liberate” everyone?
Mubarak is an elderly man and will not be around much longer no matter what happens. I don’t know why he doesn’t want to retire and enjoy his old age without lots of responsibility but that is what he has chosen, so I say be patient, and once he has passed away, you will have your chance I am sure to make a difference, if you are willing to get the Egyptians not the Muslim-hating foreigners behind you.
February 22nd, 2007 at 2:49 pm
JJ, I don’t think it’s right to come to a campaign that we personally set up for a personal friend and tell us all how to do our job properly, simply because you have no idea about our backgrounds and the history behind this campaign. We emphasize constantly that this has nothing to do with Islam, just because you are not exposed to that material doesn’t mean that we’re not taking part in that struggle as well. Whether or not people call it Islam AFTER we emphasize the fact that it’s not; that’s just their wrongdoing and is not our fault. We do our best and we do correct them as much as we can. We criticised entries by those who called this “Islam” instead of an ill caused directly by the government.
We are doing many things outside of this website where we make sure that Muslims understand what it means to be a true supporter of free speech.
As for your other accusations - we chose a friend. Is that so wrong? To think that a friend who spoke against Islam and the Egyptian government should be freed? I’m not going to sit around and wait while others are being punished for speaking out. “Wait until Mubarak is dead” is perhaps one of the laziest things a person could ever do.
If you want to fight a different fight, then go pick it.
We are making a difference in our own personal way, and we are seeing the positive results. We did this for someone we think should be freed. If you don’t like it; simply start your own campaign for others!
As for the support of Muslim-hating foreigners, perhaps it would mean more if Muslim and Arab bloggers wake up to this human rights abuse. But many of them are fearful or asleep. It’s not our fault. It is the fault of their mentality - they are either too careless, or they misundestand the fact that real free speech includes speech that we disagree with. Kareem’s a fellow Arab, he doesn’t have to be a Muslim for him to be one of us. His rights deserve to be fought for, and if you think his case is too extreme, then start your own campaign for someone whose case is lighter.
Due to lack of time this will be my last reply to you. All I’ll say is that you should do something to help wake people up, and if you think this campaign isn’t doing the job, then I will say once again - do something about it instead of complaining. We are working hard here and we believe that it’s for the sake of our future - the very least it will do is increase the public discourse regarding Islam, free speech, and democracy in the Middle East. And the fact that Muslims are the ones handling the majority of this campaign says a lot about us and our religion. Hopefully others will understand what it means to be tolerant. We love our religion, but we deeply care for Kareem too. We are doing this for the sake of our pure religion; to show that we accept criticism, and even defend the rights of others who criticize it. Islam is meant to be like that.
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:00 pm
I just want to make one last comment on this because I have a lot of work to go do, but there’s one basic thing that all these bloggers hoping to find freedom at their keyboards needs to understand:
With the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to be respectful of others when you speak.
I will say it again:
With the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to be respectful of others when you speak.
In the US, freedom of speech is one of the basic laws. But in the US, everyone knows that if they are not respectful of others when they speak, that they may encounter social disapproval. You can say anything, but you also have the responsibility to use your mind and think about whether it is right or constructive to say what you are about to say, whether you will hurt someone, whether you will alienate someone, whether what you are about to say may just be empty spiteful rhetoric. There are consequences to everything one says, even if they are not legislated consequences. Freedom of speech is not a free-for-all.
Before you defend Kareem, think about whether he really displayed any responsibility when exercising his freedom of speech. Think about it without considering the prison sentence. Consider it within his community, within his family or his university. Did he choose the proper way to express himself?
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:03 pm
As someone who has met and even argued with Kareem, then I say yes, outside of the blogosphere he has expressed himself with respect. He may have been aggressive and even insulting in his posts, but I confronted him as a Muslim, and he had nothing but respect for me. Many of his other friends are also devout Muslims.
These accusations are so easy for you to make as a complete stranger who only has his blog to judge from.
But I know this man, he is completely harmless, and a good person. And he wrote a lot about women’s issues and minority rights, don’t ignore the good posts he contributed.
So I will dismiss your baseless remarks, and continue fighting for Kareem.
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:13 pm
@ JJ
“With the freedom of speech comes the responsibility to be respectful of others when you speak.”
I disagree. U can use free speech without showing any responsibility. There cant be laws on free speech otherwise its not free.
“Did he choose the proper way to express himself? ”
It has any relevance what so ever?
February 22nd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
“n the US, freedom of speech is one of the basic laws. But in the US, everyone knows that if they are not respectful of others when they speak, that they may encounter social disapproval.”
Social disapproval is a little different than 4 years in jail.
I live in the US, and I have lived in Egypt, and I have to say that here in the US I can say anything I want–responsible or not (barring “I have a bomb” at an airport)–and I’m not likely to be arrested for it. Every day I insult the president. I know my phone line is tapped by the government and I still talk about my government on the phone. I am a Christian (there are some of those in Egypt too, in case you didn’t notice–12.5% of the population there) and I routinely say things about “Christianity” that are not flattering, but you don’t see me getting arrested, even though my government is run by fundamentalist Christians. Sure, I may encounter people who disapprove, people who don’t like what I have to say, “social disapproval” as you put it, but I’m not spending time in jail. That’s the part of this that is so disgusting and needs to be stopped.
Keep up the good work here, friends.
February 22nd, 2007 at 4:10 pm
I just want to thank the admins for their insightful comments in this post. Your “counterpart” in this discussion clearly miss all your points, and I am sorry about that. But I know you will keep on with your terrific effort anyway.
First of all, JJ clearly miss the point that you are doing this for your friend! Even if that was your main motive, and you did not worry so much about freedom of speech, it would be a good deed. One should care for their friends and family! But surely, you care alot about freedom of speech and human rights as well. That is why the work you do is even more valuable.
Because there is no doubt that it “works”, and that the “case is good enough”. The story is already in all major international news agencies. Heck, it´s on the front page of NORWAYs major newspapers online. Today! JJ may not know it, but this will raise internation attention on the matter. And international pressure sure may have a whole lot to say regarding how the Egyptian authorities act. Believe it or not.
Let me ask you, admin, a question out of curiousity. You say that the sentence have nothing to do with Islam - only the authorities. But isn´t so that seeing Kareem in prison generally is accepted and appreciated among egyptian muslims? So could it not be part of a islamification by Mubarak to prevent more people from following MB? I am no expert in egyptian politics, so please correct me if I am wrong.
Greetings from Norway,
Lutoklawski
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:32 am
I understand that he is supporting his friend. That’s noble, but if this is just about supporting friends then I would have to say that I have already seen evidence that your actions in support of Kareem will negatively impact MY friends and family, in more than one way. So if you want to argue this on those petty grounds, then I can’t support you. If this is about “starting small” and saving one person, hurting others in the process, then don’t expect my support.
If your goal was really bigger, and you did this with the goal of ensuring justice for all Egyptians wrongly imprisoned and making their country a better place, then maybe more people would support you. But it’s no wonder you don’t have popular support among Egyptians, you are supported by people like Sandmonkey who call themselves “pro-US” and says “I hate this region.” Self-loathing like that doesn’t inspire other Egyptians and it certainly inspires non-Egyptians to hate Egyptians . Look at the blogs of MB members, they talk about how they love their country. You can say it is rhetoric on both sides but rhetoric can be powerful and it shapes opinion.
With regards to Lutoklawski’s question-Mubarak is playing both sides-he throws some loud-mouthed liberal bloggers in prison to appease the MB, and he throws some MB in prison to keep the liberal bloggers and the foreign leaders happy. In the end, no one is happy because everyone is getting squeezed.
February 23rd, 2007 at 6:00 am
Once again you managed to entirely miss the point of many of the above comments and jumped straight to generalizations about how you personally perceive Kareem’s case. You have a personal bias, where you ignore the actuality of what’s going on within the Middle East right now for the sake our overall reputation. We are not going to coat this campaign with sugar and deny our problems. If you want to deny it; go ahead and do so. WE WON’T.
I will not bother answering any more since I have done more than enough on my part. You are sounding more and more like the nationalists who refuse to support people like Kareem merely because he didn’t conform. If you don’t want to support Kareem, we won’t beg you to! Stick with the same mentality and I hope you will realize how much you’re hurting those in the Middle East as much as you claim that we are, even though we are giving thousands of Arabs and Muslims a voice for by creating this campaign. And it’s a powerful voice, much more powerful than your silence.
We are not going to deny our problems for the sake of our worldwide reputation. We will not be silence due to our “pride.” If you care about your reputation so much, why don’t you actually do something about it rather than complaining to those who are actually working towards a stable and more tolerant future?
And for the record; I’m female.
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:24 pm
I am American. I am 26 years old. There are things I love about my country while there are also things I despise about my country. I am from Houston, TX and have, at one point in my life lived within 100 meters of former President, Gorge Bush. One would think an American from Texas would, if nothing else, blindly love his fellow Texan President. I do not. I think George W. Bush happens to be a social imbecile much of the time and he does not represent my country in ways I wish it were represented. One thing I do love about my country is that I can make the above statement without fear of imprisonment. Freedom of speech and freedom of the press are very important things in any society. As far as I am concerned, Kareem is Egypt’s Martin Luther and he should be freed and recognized for his bravery and his willingness to speak out for what he believes is right AND what he believes is wrong.
As for my personal opinion of Egypt’s justice system and it’s leader, Hosni Mubarak: In the wake of recent events it is my contention that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak and all of those directly or indirectly responsible for the arrest and conviction of Kareem thoroughly enjoy licking the scrota of mature male goats in their free time. It is their favorite pastime. Come and get me scrotum lickers.
February 23rd, 2007 at 5:49 pm
“why don’t you actually do something about it rather than complaining to those who are actually working towards a stable and more tolerant future?”
If admin would be a bit more patient and read what JJ said she would understand that by supporting Karim and not others in same position the “good cause” is missed by many other muslims. Political bloggers that claims to defend human rights have some responsibility to the whole muslim world and not just to “friends”.
February 24th, 2007 at 6:08 am
If Tibor made an effort to read the previous statement made in reference to this claim he/she would have the guts to support Kareem no matter what he said. JJ doesn’t support Kareem (for the sake of “reputation”) and instead chooses to whine about the fact that WE chose to support him, out of all the others that she claimed are going through the same things. Do you not understand the extremely simple fact that we are doing this for a friend? Must we repeat this on an hourly basis? What baffles the mind is how you come here to complain and ask us to change the route of this campaign when you’re not willing to do anything for any just cause, or for anyone’s sake. I made it perfectly clear (more than just once) that we chose to support Kareem for specific reasons which I have taken the time to outline and explain, and how I think this struggle is a worthy one and now many Arabs and Muslims are actually making their voices heard and are agreeing with the values set forth by this campaign. If you think this isn’t helping anyone, I implore you to reconsider.
And make an effort to also read what Teri said, which refutes both of your arguments profoundly.
Stop whining, start acting. I am tired of repeating myself for those who refuse to understand what’s been said frequently regarding the issues you bring up.
February 24th, 2007 at 7:34 am
You are the one who refuses to act. You focus on one single case and ignore all others and ignore the fact that what is happening to Kareem is part of a widespread systematic attack on the rights of ALL Egyptians. Read this article:
http://www.muslimbrotherhood.co.uk/Home.asp?zPage=Systems&System=PressR&Press=Show&Lang=E&ID=6402
It’s not only the leftists or the MB who have suffered in this systematic attack. I know people of no political persuasion who have been wrongly imprisoned for crimes they didn’t commit.
Tell me, are you willing to stand up for the rights of the tens of thousands of others who have been wrongly imprisoned? Or only your friend? Where is your sense of justice for all?
February 24th, 2007 at 7:45 am
Hmmm. By starting an entire campaign, that is a refusal to act? That’s a rather wonky philosophy.
Once again the point is lost on you, no matter how often it was made and by how many people.
So now, I resort to only one thing. Copy/paste from a commenter who actually gets it -
And that refutes the following baseless argument which highlights your utter misunderstanding of this entire campaign -
We are doing this BECAUSE his case represents human rights in Egypt. It’s VERY simple! By defending Kareem, we are defending human rights in Egypt.
Finally, read the “note on comments” post. If you fail to see the significance of this campaign, then just wait until we achieve more and you might actually realize it.
Your comments at this point will not be replied to unless they are addressed in the correct forum which we have taken the time to start for these kinds of discussions to take place. If you want to continue this further, go here. If not, then please do not write comments.